Hello all! Not sure if I’m venting or asking for advice but I’m posting here because I cannot find anything like this particular case we have, and I’ve just never experienced or heard of this much difficulty crating, even having trained plenty of dogs and puppies before.

We have an 8 month old Finnish Lapphund girl who we have done extensive crate training work with since we got her at the eight week mark. Started her out since day one making the crate a positive, safe, and rewarding experience. Calming diffuser, snuggle puppy, toys, treats, crate games and exercises, crate cover, feeding all meals in the crate, plenty of physical and mental exercise, you name it. We have had no more than a combined week or two total of success with crating up.

We cannot seem to progress past the point where she realizes it’s down time and will begin to whine and cry. She will stop sometimes and tire herself out, but oftentimes she will go incessantly, stopping only for brief moments before trying again.

We’ve never let her out while actively whining, always waited for a pause. However she seems to now think the equation is just “a good wailing and THEN silence = reinforcement,” so it’s become tricky to keep her feeling safe without playing into the reinforcement cycle. Middle of the night potty breaks are always as calm and boring as possible, no talking, no lights, no cuddling.

At the advice of trainers and experienced breeders, we’ve tried letting her cry it out. Literally weeks of hours of whining every night or sometimes even full blown tantrums with no improvement.

We’ve now after a couple more months have had minimal success taking the opposite approach- started over showing her that crate time is still safe and she’s not being abandoned, went back sleeping next to the crate, and now I can mostly get her to settle in about 10-15 minutes or so as I’ve gotten her used to me sitting progressively further away from the crate. This works somewhat at night, but she’ll work herself up if I’m far enough to begin transitioning to another room, and even if I’m right outside her crate she will still whine for that ten minutes or so. She will sometimes even wake up in the middle of the night and cry out some more for a while when she realizes she’s still crated.

but she will not have it during the day when she wants to feel more actively included in “awake time” when we’re home. it’s still very much up to her mood and what she wants, and regardless of the time, once she realizes we’re not playing a game or doing an exercise and it’s just time for the crate, she protests.

I do not believe it’s separation anxiety/isolation distress, as she shows no significant signs of stress when we leave the apartment entirely, not even drooling, panting, or tight mouth commissures. only actually fussy when we are home.

I don’t believe it’s crate phobia, as she often goes in on her own throughout the day, and even will relax in there briefly. Even more oddly, sometimes when we let her out for an assumed potty break, even if she does not go and was just whining for release, she will walk herself right back into the crate to continue whining after, or sometimes even refuse release when let out. Of course to continue whining shortly.

We have tried the exercise pen or gating her off in a section of her own, and it makes very little difference, as she will often still be just as fussy. Even when free roaming during the day, she will sometimes have hours on end where she couldn’t care less if I leave the room, but other times where she’ll demand whine nonstop if i do so much as leave the room to put laundry in the dryer. She has visited the vet consistently throughout her puppyhood, and has no medical issues.

We’ve found minimal success in trying moreso to reduce the length of the crying than extend the length of the silence, but in either case, we have hit a wall at a pretty low threshold and after months of daily practice sessions and building value, she’s still throwing these little tantrums. I haven’t slept a whole night in my own bed in six months. God help me.

Note: she can’t sleep with us, as we live in a one bedroom apartment and both the cats food and litter box is in our room. She is a cat chaser and a poop eater. She also doesn’t wake us to ask to go potty when not confined and will just go on the floor if the patio door is shut.