This post has been de-listed
It is no longer included in search results and normal feeds (front page, hot posts, subreddit posts, etc). It remains visible only via the author's post history.
Hi there, mods! We’re here with some updates on a few of the topics raised recently about Reddit’s Data API.
tl;dr - On July 1, we will enforce new rate limits for a free access tier available to current API users, including mods. We're in discussions with PushShift to enable them to support moderation access. Moderators of sexually-explicit spaces will have continued access to their communities via 3rd party tooling and apps.
First update: new rate limits for the free access tier
We posted in r/redditdev about a new enterprise tier for large-scale applications that seek to access the Data API.
All others will continue to access the Reddit Data API without cost, in accordance with our Developer Terms, at this time. Many of you already know that our stated rate limit, per this documentation, was 60 queries per minute regardless of OAuth status. As of July 1, 2023, we will start enforcing two different rate limits for the free access tier:
- If you are using OAuth for authentication: 100 queries per minute per OAuth client id
- If you are not using OAuth for authentication: 10 queries per minute
Important note: currently, our rate limit response headers indicate counts by client id/user id combination. These headers will update to reflect this new policy based on client id only, on July 1.
Most authenticated callers should not be significantly impacted. Bots and applications that do not currently use our OAuth may need to add OAuth authentication to avoid disruptions. If you run a moderation bot or web extension that you believe may be adversely impacted and cannot use Oauth, please reach out to us here.
If you’re curious about the enterprise access tier, then head on over here to r/redditdev to learn more.
Second update: academic & research access to the Data API
We recently met with the Coalition for Independent Research to discuss their concerns arising from changes to PushShift’s data access. We are in active discussion with Pushshift about how to get them in compliance with our Developer Terms so they can provide access to the Data API limited to supporting moderation tools that depend on their service. See their message here. When this discussion is complete, Pushshift will share the new access process in their community.
We want to facilitate academic and other research that advances the understanding of Reddit’s community ecosystem. Our expectation is that Reddit developer tools and services will be used for research exclusively for academic (i.e. non-commercial) purposes, and that researchers will refrain from distributing our data or any derivative products based on our data (e.g. models trained using Reddit data), credit Reddit, and anonymize information in published results to protect user privacy.
To request access to Reddit’s Data API for academic or research purposes, please fill out this form.
Review time may vary, depending on the volume and quality of applications. Applications associated with accredited universities with proof of IRB approval will be prioritized, but all applications will be reviewed.
Third update: mature content
Finally, as mentioned in our post last month: as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed, we will be limiting large-scale applications’ access to sexually explicit content via our Data API starting on July 5, 2023 except for moderation needs.
And those are all the updates (for now). If you have questions or concerns, we’ll be looking for them and sticking around to answer in the comments.
Why is the pricing so high? It would cost me a comical $20 million dollars a year to keep my app running as-is, an app that like many third-party apps, have many moderators that depend on it.
I'm not sure if you understand how important third party apps are to the Reddit ecosystem. Not only do they provide an opportunity for folks who don't like the official app to be able to still use Reddit on-the-go, but many of the moderators who serve as the backbone of the entire site rely on third-party apps to do their job.
As a number, Apollo currently has over 7000 moderators of subreddits with over 20K subscribers who use Apollo, from r/Pics, to r/AskReddit, to r/Apple, to r/IAmA, etc. It would be easy to imagine that combined with other third-party apps across iOS and Android that well over 10,000 of the top subreddits use third-party apps to moderate and keep their community operating.
This is equivalent to going to a construction site and taking away all the workers' favorite tools, only to replace them with different, corporate-mandated ones. Except the construction workers are also building your houses for free.
Why infuriate so many people and communities?
Okay, my app isn't a bot, it's similar to the official app, so that would be a better point of comparison. How many daily requests does the average official app user make?
What about anti-spam and anti-abuse tools, and mods, that need to access mature content communities other than those they have moderator status in?
Our bot relies on being able to do this to detect spambots, and both our bot and mod alike need to be able to see the content of communities that are linked to or cross-posted from, to ensure those communities are legitimate and legal. Aside from breaking our anti-spam, anti-CSAM, and safety tools, how will anyone ever be able to moderate mature content communities in the vacuum you intend to create?
Additionally, many other communities rely on similar bots to exclude users of mature content communities from communities which serve minors as they often present a real safety risk. What are communities that need these functions to do when you shut off our ability to see huge swaths of Reddit?
How is it equitable? As I mentioned in my post:
As for the pricing, despite claims that it would be based in reality, it seems anything but. Less than 2 years ago Reddit said they crossed $100M in quarterly revenue for the first time ever, if we assume despite the economic downturn that they've managed to do that every single quarter now, and for your best quarter, you've doubled it to $200M. Let's also be generous and go far, far above industry estimates and say you made another $50M in Reddit Premium subscriptions. That's $550M in revenue per year, let's say an even $600M. In 2019, Reddit said they hit 430 million monthly active users, and to also be generous, let's say they haven't added a single active user since then (if we do revenue-per-user calculations, the more users, the less revenue each user would contribute). So at generous estimates of $600M and 430M monthly active users, that's $1.40 per user per year, or $0.12 monthly. These own numbers they've given are also seemingly inline with industry estimates as well.
For an average user of mine, using 344 requests per day, that would cost $2.50, which is 20x the estimated figure for Reddit. The API rate limit is 60 requests per minute, that's under 6 minutes of usage, my usage is already low.
To be clear, the numbers I posted there are Reddit's numbers, from Reddit's blog
That is not what I'm asking at all, and I don't know how to test if my bot is affected til the changes stop returning the data it relies on. This does not impact just us, it impacts every mod of any mature community on the site who uses any bot or 3P app; as well as anyone who might need to protect their non-mature communities from users who post in mature ones.
Large-scale applications include all 3rd-party apps, do they not? And you keep saying "able to access sexually explicit content for subreddits they moderate", when my question was very specifically about needing to access that content for subreddits we do NOT moderate.
Reddit communities aren't total vacuums, communities are heavily interlinked; it's a social networking site, is it not? How are mods of mature communities supposed to moderate cross-posts and links to content to and from elsewhere on the site when we cannot see those other communities? We just cross our fingers and hope those links aren't taking our users to scams, disturbing, and/or illegal content? How do we defend against brigading when we cannot see where it is coming from? How do we exclude doxxing gangs, paedophiles, and other dangerous users from our communities when we can't see where else they are posting? Even trivial things like seeing if a link to a subreddit is spam or not become impossible when neither your 3rd-party mobile app nor bot cannot see what that link goes to, and Reddit does not seem to have any understanding of how moderation of mature communities on their own platform actually works.
Oh, I'm not sure if they've mentioned it elsewhere, but that was the figure I was given on the call (1,000 calls will cost $0.24) and they said I was free to post it.
For what it's worth I don't think there's any world in which point number 1 is true, Reddit out-downloads Apollo enormously each day so I don't think Apollo is anywhere near Reddit's app in terms of active userbase.
Post Details
- Posted
- 1 year ago
- Reddit URL
- View post on reddit.com
- External URL
- reddit.com/r/modnews/com...
Why are you assuming Apollo is just not used more than those other apps? If those other apps are using 3x less API calls, but are also being used 3x less, how is that inefficient on Apollo's end?
Loading 10 subreddits and viewing 10 posts in each would use 100 requests, you're saying anything more than that is inefficient?