I am curious because I have never discussed this topic with anyone, women or men alike, but I really want to start doing so. I'm not really that eager to "convert" men, I'm just wondering if you've ever had a man listen to you and eventually agree with your arguments or if it's always been a waste of time. I've only met men oppose porn online and they always make it clear it's because they've become depressed and it's because they've got erectile dysfunction.

There's also the men who will agree that the "industry" is bad but there is "nothing wrong" with porn conceptually (and somehow use this to justify going back to porn streaming sites, that are very much a part of the industry) and I just always want to say: If it wasn't for the industry, pornography wouldn't exist. You have no idea if these couples posting their intimate videos on twitter are consensually doing so or if the man posted the videos behind the woman's back like it so often happens. There is no point in arguing about the hypothetical meaning of whether pornography in a non patriarchal and non capitalist society would be ethical because this situation does not exist.

The few women who've told me they have, did it with men who they were already dating and I just allow myself to be skeptical if all these men were honest about it or if they weren't just trying to appease their girlfriends.

Another point sorry if I'm rambling but it just came up in my head, I find it so funny that men assure that sex work is work and not sex trafficking hence it's ethical for them to consume it, and then look down on women who do OF because "there is free porn already". I stumbled on a (deleted) reddit post of a person saying that men were only against OF because they felt entitled to women's bodies and the idea of paying for it made them offended, which I absolutely agreed with, and the comments were all butthurt typical redditors being like "uhm, no, we are against OF because it goes against the idea that porn should be free." Oh really? Porn should be free ? If it's such a respected work why won't you pay for it ? Why does the idea of paid work upset you so much ? In my opinion, it's because they know that when they watch porn, they get away with watching degraded women and that thought makes them feel superior to them. However, the idea of paying, worse, the idea that all of the revenues go to her (which is often not the case) and not a third party (pimp, agency etc) is even more degrading because they feel like she has power over them (when she does not), that it's an actual service she's selling and not just a free access to her body.

I feel like the root of all pro-pornography arguments is entitlement. You can give 58 different ways porn is awful to everyone involved : the women in it, the men watching it, the women who have to endure the behavioural conditioning of the men watching it, and they'd still find that one potential silver lining that'd justify them watching it. Men feel like it is natural that they have access to women's bodies because they have grown up with this being a guaranteed right to them : if they want to see what a naked woman looks like, they can type it up online and find it. If they want this naked woman to fulfill any desire they have, no matter how vile, degrading or gruesome, they will find a man who will have made that naked woman do this for performance. The idea of taking that away is awful for them because it has never been a possibility in their head that the world should be any different. So I feel like if I were to argue with a man about pornography, I would honestly focus on this if he tries to dodge all of the terrible ways the industry is wrong. Why do you hate the idea of living in a world without porn ? Why do you feel like it's taking something away from you, and what is that thing taken away from you ?