Hey everyone! I'm so glad I found this sub because I love idly gossiping about the Tudors as much as I love the actual historical events.

First off, I want to say that I am in no way judging or slut shaming either of these women. I'm a sex positive person and in no way do I think they are failures for (possibly) not living up to sexual mores of the time.

I am wondering, however, if anyone else is fairly convinced that Catherine of Aragon and Arthur Tudor did have sex? Their household at the time seemed to be under the impression that the marriage was consummated, and it just makes sense- they were 2 young married people sleeping in the same bed and there did seem to be attraction and affection between them. I know it doesn't always work that way in the past between royals (and probably regular people whose sexual impediments weren't documented or fretted about) but yeah, I personally think Catherine lost her virginity to him.

Now, considering Henry made it extremely clear to everyone that he didn't mind at all that she had been married to his brother, and had to beseech the pope to legitimize their marriage, I don't think that their divorce was valid on the grounds of her sleeping with his brother. But, it does seem clear that whether or not she actually did have sex wjth Arthur, she told Henry from the start that she was still a virgin.

I think it would be a heartbreaking, but interesting moral problem for Catherine to face in the wake of the divorce. If true, she must have met immense guilt and inner turmoil due to her faith while having to lie to maintain her position. Maybe she even felt on some level that it was God's punishment for her lie.

The second isn't so much speculation as it is an interesting fact I discovered recently about Queen Elizabeth I and Robert Dudley. I always thought the world was on the fence about whether or not she and Robert Dudley ever actually had sex and if she died a virgin. But recently I discovered that the two of them had adjoining rooms, which to me, is the smoking gun that they were definitely fucking. I just can't think of a non-sexual reason for why that would be the case.

Would love to hear your thoughts in the comments. Love y'all!