My wife (F38, demi, bi and an INFJ-T if you follow Myers Briggs stuff) and I (M43, compersion guy and an INTJ-A) recently decided to take a break (maybe even throw in the towel on LS) and she was chatting with a couple that sounded similar to us in some ways that had messaged us on one of the paid sites.

I copy/pasted what she said to them in response to their questions about our "journey" here b/c I figured some other newbies or curious couples might find it interesting. I've added some of my comments in [ ] here and there, and our names have been changed for humor's sake and to protect the guilty (bonus points if you can guess the reference made in the choice of names). Also, I've posted about some of the referenced experiences previously as well if you wanted to see my takes in previous my posts.

Note: We're introverts. We wouldn't really like clubs so we found other couples online through a couple paid sites that are popular in our area. We're both sort of hermits and while I thought I was the more curmudgeonous of the two of us, we must've switched at some point (I think b/c I'm not around as many people anymore and that's allowed me to become less judgmental and maybe more understanding than I used to be - It's not "just" that I was the more eager party, I swear 🤣). Martha points out that she's also a lot more sensitive than I am.

We're definitely unique/quirky in a few ways, and we knew that, but swingers are mostly normal people from the general populace and mostly like the popular stuff most people like. Overlapping interests is very important to Martha but just not there with some folks which leads her to feel like in LS, that they only have an interest in her body (which is pretty awesome btw - we did have a few people with a sales background who I could tell had studied up on our profile and pitched to us off it and I'm pretty sure that's why)! I'll happily brag on her more if anyone's interested 😎

Here's Martha's unfiltered take on our LS experiences:

• Martha here! We started exploring our sexual fantasies after an admission of mutual mid-life crises-like experiences. Clark was always interested in some kind of group sex dynamic where I realized I had sexual attraction to one of my closest female friends. We decided to pursue LS, but I had quite a few reservations (later on we realized that I'm demi-sexual and having actual sexual attraction to someone does not happen easily for me- in addition we're both introverts and don't care for large gatherings or "going out").

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• The first couple we met with, we shared pics early on and texted heavily. I met with the woman one on one before a couple dinner, and while on our text chain she said she was interested in women, in person I got a lot of mixed signals from her and left feeling negative about the upcoming couple date. Dinner with couple 1 was pleasant enough, but again, a lot of what she said contradicted previous communication. Our first lesson was to meet via video chat first and refrain from too many graphic pics before actually meeting.
• We had several video chat "dates" that didn't go beyond that.

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• Couple 2 was really quirky and funny. [We're weird and it seemed like we had some of the same humor too; but that was mostly just him, not her]
• We met for dinner, and we hit it off.
• We met up the next week while they were staying at a resort near our house. The woman had experienced a lot of sexual trauma as a child and had dealt with abusive relationships, and was struggling to find pleasure in sex. Her current partner was excited to try anything to bring her pleasure- he had almost a child-like enthusiasm for any kind of toy or to explore any kink. [He even brought and set up one of those electric "fuck machine" dildos like in porn to show us which was kinda cool but also def not something my wife was interested in - she doesn't even like penetrative toys]
• They were plenty nice, but she had to get incredibly drunk to interact with people. [She could socialize ok, but felt she needed to be super drunk before getting amorous in any case]
• She also sucked on my toe which I did not appreciate (she later confessed that she didn't like it- I wondered why she did it in the first place!) Not much "play" took place. She kissed me while drunk in the hot tub. I didn't really find much pleasure in the situation.
• In addition, the male partner had an inconclusive HSV [type 2] test [false positives are common at the lower end of a positive result, but his antibodies iirc were high enough that he probably was positive though he claimed, and we believed him, that he'd never shown symptoms; she was negative for all STDs in the 10-panel tests we all had taken] result which for me especially was a non-negotiable. [so we set boundaries such that there would be no exposure]
• Later on, Clark and I were feeling frisky and would have enjoyed parallel play, but at this point she was completely uninterested in anything [I chatted with him later and he explained they were pretty tired but might have been into it (I bet he'd have been, but she was pretty spent from my vantage point and probably not in the mood)], so we went home.
• We met up with them a second time for dinner and a movie, but they were clearly not enjoying the night out (visibly uncomfortable, did not enjoy the humor in the film). [It wasn't "that" bad at the restaurant from my POV, but they really didn't care for the movie and we were just cracking up]

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• Couple 3: We had a long series of text exchanges (primarily Clark and the man- he enjoys philosophical ponderings and intellectual discourse that I would occasionally pop on to offer my 2 cents) I did not find them attractive, but they were very nice and enjoyable to chat with. Our first video call with them went fine, so we decided to have lunch.
• The meeting went well- she had expressed similar reservations about swapping that I had. Initially, he had mentioned they were really only looking for a steady couple to parallel play with. However, after we agreed to have a night away with them, he mentioned in text about their desires for full swap one day (I think he was hoping I'd "warm up" to the idea). [I missed the full swap comment somehow and was confused when Martha was telling me about it later 😅]
• The date was pleasant enough, but I was mostly uncomfortable and didn't want to be alone with the other male. She did not really express any interest in me- our only conversation was about her children's college and career choices. (that being said, I didn't really express any interest in her either-- the only one expressing any real interest was him about me and about me and her together). [Note: He also had the stereotypical country "guys are supposed to chase tail" attitude which he tried to sort of offset with being very "new age woke" in Martha's words (Martha is more intellectual snob woke herself so 🤣)]
• Parallel play [separate beds] went fine, but for Clark it was not as fulfilling as he was hoping for (it was short and there was less build-up than he wanted) [I wanted to show off a little, and I guess mission accomplished there, but it was just over fast from my POV. Also, they were extremely vigorous and vocal about it. I'm not opposed to that I guess, but I guess we prefer things a little more chill and then to build to a peak].
• We had discussed a second date, but our periods interfered. We had some more text exchanges, but he seems to have a hard time understanding what demi-sexual actually means (he keeps hoping that I'll want to eat out his wife or something, but I have no urge because there was no perceptible interest or attraction on her part in addition to the fact that I barely know them to have any kind of bond/connection that I need in order to feel sexually attracted). [To be fair - none of the people we've met in LS, even the ones who claim to be demi, really seem to get it. They just seem to think it means "not on the 1st date". Martha now also points out that she gets annoyed when she has expressed herself very clearly and people seem to have ignored her or totally miss it.]
• [I posted about it here - skip to the end of the post for the Results if you like:
  https://www.reddit.com/r/Swingers/comments/14nryvm/parallel_play_tipstricks/]

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• Couple 4: they were the most promising and the ones we've done the most with [parallel play, same bed twice].
• Our video chat went well (I especially liked that the couple seemed to genuinely like each other and often shared little in-jokes with each other (something Clark and I tend to do but try not to around new ppl!)
• Our first meeting went ok. I did not really feel the conversation was engaging, but Clark really seemed to enjoy talking to them. I didn't have much in common, but a few topics were brought up near the end that turned the date into something more enjoyable. Afterwards, I expressed to Clark that I wasn't really sure I liked them but would be willing to meet up again. [I thought they seemed really promising in terms of the things I think should be most important: seemed trustworthy, were relatable, seemed more selective like us, classy, seemed like good well-intentioned people, and fairly attractive and fit (let's be honest, it matters)]
• We had another dinner date, and this time the conversation was really engaging and enjoyable for everyone. At this dinner I mentioned that I'm 1) demi-sexual 2) find them both aesthetically attractive and 3) would feel comfortable trying out parallel play with them. Soon after we made arrangements to have an overnight date.
• When we got to the hotel, we opted for same bed play (though he suggested we start with me making out with him- I politely declined) [again I missed or just didn't pay much mind to this part 😂 "She has it covered and can speak for herself" is vaguely what I recall thinking].
• Sex was fine (for me, honestly, I'm really REALLY into my husband and I don't really have any interest in other men, so as long as I was doing him, I would be ok). [Martha came 5 times just sitting on my lap making out with me before clothes even came off 😋 Martha's not going to stop me, but just noted that it's embarrassing me telling you all this 😆]
• We had clear boundaries that were respected, the extra hands were interesting, boobs are cool, but I couldn't help but feel self-conscious, as she did not orgasm at all, and I experience multiple on a regular basis. The next morning, Clark and I were hoping for more sex (we enjoyed each other but were open to more parallel play), but she had no desire. We ended up going to the pool for a bit, but at this point, I had reached my maximum of social interaction (in addition I was uncomfortable as the pool was cold and I did not have adequate sun protection and while I am not albino, I'm just about that pale). We checked out and had brunch, and that was nice.
• Our second "play" date was dinner followed by a bedroom romp at their place. I will admit I was uncomfortable as their children were upstairs asleep (the babysitter was getting picked up by her mom as we pulled in their driveway). I'm a VERY private person, and honestly, seeing where/how they live and their family pictures all over the place put me on edge [I just took them at their reassurance that they were young kids and were soundly asleep... 🤷‍♂️]
• Again, the actual sex with our respective partners was good. [We had relaxed the boundaries a little to include the stipulation that no one needed to ask first to do what we'd agreed on (so touching was fine, just no genital contact)] The touching was nice. I did kiss her, but I felt absolutely nothing, and it was clear to me she didn't enjoy it as she stopped almost immediately. I could feel his desire for me (as well as his verbal permissions to touch and appreciate him, but I didn't have any real urge to do so- like I said, I found him aesthetically pleasing, but I was not sexually attracted to him at all). [In the moment, Martha gets really into it. She doesn't remember clearly, but a good ways into sex, he asked to suck on her breasts and she said it was ok. His wife asked again to make sure, and Martha said it was fine. (Martha preferred not being asked as it kind of brought her out of the moment)]
• Personality-wise, Clark meshes with them much better than me [As long as folks are the things I mentioned before minus looks (that doesn't matter for getting along), I'm probably going to be cool with them - I only have a short list of significant pet peeves. Martha points out that she has "tomes, scrolls, and an entire encyclopedia of them"], and when I'm not "feeling it" I tend to shut down and lose interest. I am worried about playing with couples and them not fully understanding how I have no desire to have sex with another man (nor do I want to be there to "service" a pillow princess), and I can't help but feel like I'm disappointing these people even though Clark and I have been as clear as possible about my sexuality and desires.
• [Results I'd posted about at the time here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Swingers/comments/15bxpb8/help_setting_soft_boundaries_for_parallel_play/]
• We had discussed another date, but our child's schedule interfered and Clark had an illness that put him out of commission and so we had to cancel. Clark is still interested in meeting with them, but a couple months of introspection and reflection on my part has made me sour on the idea.
• I've also observed that while the couples state the woman is bi or bicurious, I haven't actually met a woman who *is*. Usually, she's ok with a woman going down on her but she's not interested in women and is more interested in the performative aspect.
• I've also noticed that the women tend to express insecurities either directly or indirectly (including humble bragging and via backhanded compliments to me.) While I have internalized insecurities, my self-esteem is high (maybe unwarranted but meh, it is what it is).
  [It's very warranted in LS especially since sexually: she's fit with an hourglass figure, naturally large full nicely shaped 34F breasts, a cute face, she looks much younger than she is, she orgasms well into the double-digits in a single session from PIV alone (which most guys love and lots of ppl think is a myth) or just from anticipation, and she has an insatiable drive. Besides all that she's very intelligent, well educated, hyper-capable, skilled in many areas, kind, loving, empathetic, confident, selfless... I could go on but it'd end up it's own post - I'm not even exaggerating - her biggest flaw is that she just can't seem to close containers consistently]
  I find confidence very sexy, and I find it off-putting when people are constantly seeking reassurance and validation (especially from either me or my husband since they don't actually know us so what's the value in our reassurance?)

Ok, so that's the summary of interactions of note to my wife. We had met some other couples and chatted with many more. We hope this is insightful to any other newbie couples with an interest and wish luck for any of you out there looking to explore. If we'd offer some big lessons we learned:

• Martha:
  • Don't do anything you're unsure of (if it's not "Hell Yes", it's "No")
  • Guilt should never be a motivator
  • You can always loosen/tighten boundaries later
• Clark:
  • Hide nothing from your partner, even if you think it might hurt them to hear it
  • How you act with each other needn't and probably shouldn't be the same in the bedroom vs in day-to-day life (eg. I take a dominant role with Martha in bed and she likes that, but we're equals irl)
  • Discuss thoroughly before and after, learn, repeat