Kay Burley: Up next, I'm talking to Kuri, Deputy Prime Minister in Westminster, and the Shadow Finance Minister in Holyrood. Welcome, Kuri.

Kuri: Always a pleasure to be here, Kay.

Kay: Your party suggests in its manifesto that you want to scrap the traditional system of justice and replace it with a totally new approach. Why abolish justice?

Kuri: Well first off Kay, we're not scrapping everything and starting again. What we're proposing is a series of tweaks — some larger than others — to make our criminal justice system more effective at bringing about justice. I am a firm believer that we should make the world the best it can be. Clearly, those who commit crimes are — in the vast majority of cases anyway — are not doing so. But we can't keep using a system that isn't working. That's resulting in more and more people being locked away in prisons and being set up to re-offend.

Kay: Is it our prisons that are causing re-offending, or is it really just in people's nature?

Kuri: Well, I think it's quite clear. It's got to be our prisons. Other countries have had far lower levels of re-offending when they have switched to a rehabilitation-focused approach. Norway is a shining example of how prisons can be a force for good, rather than a place where humans are forgotten. But I don't think we should just focus on prisons. Of course, space is always going to be an issue. So we should only use prisons where this is going to be the most effective rehabilitation method or there is some other overriding reason to use them. We should always try to find a non-custodial approach first. It has a lower cost, tends to have better results, and it means that we reduce the risk to the public in doing so.

Kay: Reduce the risk to the public… by letting them go free?

Kuri: It does sound counter-intuitive, but it works. If the justice system is there to make people realise what they've done is wrong, then that is part and parcel of a rehabilitative approach.

Kay: How does this tie in with your proposals to reform Mental Health laws?

Kuri: Both obviously involve an element of involuntary detainment. Criminals through the penal system, and those with mental health problems through sectioning. In both cases, involuntary detainment can actually be detrimental. I know when I was going through a rough patch in my life, part of it was the spiralling anxiety of if — and eventually when — I would be detained. By raising the bar, we remove that barrier to speaking out about poor mental health. The sectioning route should only be used for those who truly need it. Not because it's convenient for others or for the NHS. And having a learning disability should never be a valid ground for being sectioned. That's really important to me, and something I'd like to clarify in the law.

Kay: You mentioned there about people with learning disabilities. You also have a plan to create a Vulnerable Adults Commissioner. Can you not be trusted to make decisions in their interests?

Kuri: I think that's a little disingenuous Kay. The Vulnerable Adults Commissioner will mirror the Children & Young People's Commissioner that already exists. They'll be another layer of accountability for both this Scottish Government, the next one, and all the ones after that. In doing so, we stop making people's vulnerabilities a political issue. Instead, they have someone to promote their best interests in the political sphere, independent from party allegiances and alliances.

Kay: Thank you very much, Kuri.

Kuri: Thanks, Kay.