Coming soon - Get a detailed view of why an account is flagged as spam!
view details

This post has been de-listed

It is no longer included in search results and normal feeds (front page, hot posts, subreddit posts, etc). It remains visible only via the author's post history.

88
Just watched the video from Lazy Masquerade about this case...
Post Flair (click to view more posts with a particular flair)
Post Body

And he said: "If Brian is innocent, he must be the unluckiest man in the world." after he listed all the evidence against Kohberger.

And it is so true. I can not wrap my head around how the cellphone data, the knife sheat, the extreme deep Cleanse of the car which also matches the crime scene area, the tools they found at his home,.. and more.. can not be his nail in the coffin.

AT is so sure he is innocent, or she is just a badass laywer and says this to be believable.

Comments
[not loaded or deleted]

Cleaning products would leave a trace as well

Hydrogen peroxide is very effective at degrading DNA. It also degrades traces of blood, rendering it non reactive with forensic reagents like luminol. Hydrogen peroxide decomposes to just oxygen and water - totally undetectable. Basic chemistry.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090217112516.htm#:~:text=A team of scientists from,with detergents containing active oxygen.

[not loaded or deleted]

defense brought in an expert to testify that 70% of the cell phone tower records were not mapped

This is a great example of taking one remark and grossly over extrapolating. It is really unclear what was meant by the remark. One logical interpretation might be that many data points are simply duplicative for mapping purposes e.g. if there are 10 tower interactions in 1 minute all for one transceiver sector, then mapping one is no different to mapping all ten - as they would all show the phone in a relatively small transceiver sector on the map.

 said that from what he can tell of what was not mapped it could even show BK could not have been at the crime scene

That is not what Mr Ray said, and is quite a bizarre stretch - you could say that any evidence not shown to actually exist could show anything. We do know from evidence submitted under penalty of perjury that Kohberger's phone and car were a few miles south of the murder scene c 28 minutes after a car matching his was on video fleeing at high speed from there to the south. If, as seems the case, the phone was off over the period of the murders then there seems no chance of any exculpatory phone evidence placing him elsewhere.

There is also a very odd reversal and inconsistency here - for more than a year Probergers have argued that phone "ping" localisation is wildly inaccurate (it isn't), 26 miles accuracy, only one tower etc etc - but now the defence have accurate and reliable cell phone data than can be exculpatory? How odd.

search warrant returns for BKs home, parents home, and car had no tools listed that would be obvious links to this crime

The search warrants returned:

  • a large hunting style knife and another "knife"; these might be construed to be of relevance to stabbing murders? A gun, a shovel, goggles, receipts for "Dickies" items, ID cards wrapped inside a glove inside a box etc - while no clear linkage and no details beyond the warrant list, also not a huge stretch to speculate relevance. Edit - corrected name of Sy Ray
[not loaded or deleted]

How many freaking bottles of that would it take to completely clean a car

There may have been limited blood transferred into the car - so really it was mainly cleaning of the driver seat, probably trunk, and anything the driver may have contacted like seat belt, pedals, switches.

He had 7 weeks to repeat clean. Some crime scenes, where people were actually stabbed and bled out, have been cleaned of all blood in under an hour (e.g Robert Wone murder case). No one was stabbed or bled in the car.

Hydrogen peroxide is sold is most supermarkets and pharmacies, and is very cheap - can be easily bought in litre quantities, sufficient to fully clean every surface in a car. It can be sprayed easily into any nook or crany and degrades DNA quickly and completely beyond forensic profiling even on fabrics like carpet at concentrations above 3% ( it is typically sold at c 9-12%). It does not bleach fabrics (it is the "bleach" source used in colour safe fabric cleaners and stain removers). Notable that water alone, or simple dish soap, is often effective at fully removing DNA from non porous surfaces. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31960151/#:~:text=Cleaning smooth surfaces with water,reduction of verifiable DNA concentrations.

All of these studies showing DNA complete removal with just water, soap, or degradation with peroxide, are using 1 wash. Kohberger likely washed his car many, many times - his life depended on it after all.

Cleaning away DNA and blood is not that hard given time. Just as one example - a 15 year old school boy stabbed two people to death having broken into their home - even after disembowelling and mutilating, sexually assaulting the victims, he left no DNA at the scene and cleaned all traces of victim DNA/ blood tracked to his home such that zero was recovered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Claudia_Maupin_and_Oliver_Northup

if there's nothing he's going home free

90% of murder convictions in the USA involve no DNA evidence. The Kohberger case is already in the small minority where very incriminating perpetrator DNA was recovered at the scene, and in a tiny minority where DNA was under a victim.

[not loaded or deleted]

And if there's no proof that he cleaned it, this is irrelevant anyway

Hydrogen peroxide leaves no chemical trace, at all. He was reported to have been seen cleaning the car by police observing him - of course we await the trial for confirmation but the news outlets were reasonably credible, including CNN, The Independent etc

https://preview.redd.it/qpybrfdcvb7d1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e357fbaade3a9fe75b85df5b6ee171885c29b039

We can't know how much blood he would have tracked but there were limited footprints

I agree, given the footprint at DM's door was latent, it seems most of the blood had already worn off his shoes by just crossing the lounge, and that with zero blood outside the house may suggest limited blood tracked into the car. Blood on the fabric of his clothing would transfer by rubbing and friction, it is not an aerosol or spray inside the car, so the cleaning task not in any way insurmountable. Again, if the Robert Wone and Maupin murder scenes could be cleaned of any detectable blood/ DNA in an hour, where people were actually stabbed, it seems logical a car where no one was stabbed can be cleaned given 7 weeks. There are many other murder case examples where n blood or DNA was recovered where the killer had only hours to clean, not weeks.

As a jury I'd need proof that he cleaned the car, or that blood from a victim was found there

Given, as exampled by a few links, it can be relatively easy and quick to remove all blood and DNA, why would you need this? The Innocence Project note that 90% of murder convictions in the USA involve zero incriminating DNA - no perpetrator DNA at the scene or associated with the victim, no victim DNA on the perp or in their car/ home. Kohberger's case is already in a tiny minority with very incriminating DNA of the suspect under a victim.

[not loaded or deleted]

hope juries will need more than this, I know I would.

Oh, absolutely. An explanation for no DNA in the car is quite minor. The various pieces of evidence made public in the PCA do however already provide a significant case. Each piece of evidence tends to give context to and reinforce the others - the sheath DNA inside is given context by the car matching his down to detail of missing plate outside speeding away at the time; the eyewitness description is given context by the DNA and vice versa; the phone movement synchronous with the car movements before and after the killings make both more significant. If, as is likely, the foot print matches his size 13 that would be, with the DNA under a victim, car at scene and match to eyewitness description, very compelling.

[not loaded or deleted]

Pings: Sy Ray said they looked to be exculpatory.

You stated in the previous comment Mr Ray said "it could even show BK could not have been at the crime scene", this is a bit different. Did he say anything about pings demonstrating Kohberger was not at the scene?
As the phone was off/ not reporting to network over the time of the killings it is hard to imagine how there may be exculpatory data (GPS has never been mentioned, at least yet), and the only data actually known publicly so far is incriminating - placing Kohberger c 4 miles south of the scene shortly after a car matching his was seen on video speeding away in that direction, and then moving synchronously with the suspect car.

Tools: People are free to speculate

Yes, but you said the search warrants returned no items relevant to the crime - a large hunting knife and another "knife", and a gun, do seem somewhat relevant to the crime?

[not loaded or deleted]

little if ant spatter on the killer?

Yes, I recall the conversation. There were another couple of cases I shared a while ago, both with very gory videos - one was a single stabbing, also an Australian mall - despite arterial spurt the stabber got no blood on him, you'd have to be standing in a very specific place to get any blood on you in that case. Another was, iirc from India, a horrible murder of young woman - stabbed over 25 times and then bludgeoned - on the video the perp walks away with zero blood visible on him at all, and no footprints.

The Apple River case while showing speed to stab several people in a few seconds was also very interesting - as even in broad daylight, with all attention on the stabber as focal point of the whole dispute/ fight, no one, including the victims, realised it was a knife attack until after it was over and the knife wielder was wading away. Shows both level and advantage of surprise attack - even after one victim has received a wound that disembowels him, another victim approaches the knife man to deescalate not realising there was stabbing and a knife ( he gets stabbed also, but thinks it is a punch). It puts DM sighting, and also XK/ EC surprise into perspective.

[not loaded or deleted]

There's no evidence from his car that matches the crime scene.

How do you know that? Have fibres matching the house interior been ruled out in his car? Have dog hairs matching the dog at the house been ruled out in his car?

There's not any cell phone or surveillance video

There were videos from 21 locations mentioned in the PCA from the early morning of Nov 13th, all consistent in time, location and direction of travel for driving between Kohberger's home and the scene; around half of these correspond with cell phone locations.

That's 1 piece of evidence

You seem to overlook the eyewitness description, latent footprint ( which may well match his statistically uncommon size 13 feet), his own "alibi" confirming a critical part of the state's narrative (that he was driving at 3.30am -4.20am close to the scene), the c 21 car videos, and that a sufficient amount of evidence was presented to 2 judges for Kohberger's arrest, his indictment and maintenance of the indictment.

[not loaded or deleted]

his phone never pinged in Moscow since around 9 am on the 13th right?

Yes, that is another correlation. We know he took at least 13 trips to Moscow preceding the murders, but that pattern stopped abruptly and completely on the morning of November 13th. It seems odd if the justification for his at least 12 x 3am visits to Moscow was the superior shopping there......

[not loaded or deleted]

Ahoy! Recall, our brief conversation about 90% of murder cases involving no DNA? I was looking to see percentage by method - found this. Certainly suggests that over 15% of murders are with knife, non-gun other weapon (bat, other blunt object) or with hands, feet ( stomping, choking). Certainly suggests a significant subset of non-gun murders where there was not (usable) perpetrator DNA or victim DNA associated with the perpetrator. Just sharing for interest.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

[not loaded or deleted]

BK is a patsy.

Is that a type of pie?

Author
Account Strength
90%
Account Age
4 years
Verified Email
Yes
Verified Flair
No
Total Karma
1,071
Link Karma
326
Comment Karma
745
Profile updated: 20 hours ago

Subreddit

Post Details

We try to extract some basic information from the post title. This is not always successful or accurate, please use your best judgement and compare these values to the post title and body for confirmation.
Posted
4 months ago