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I have a lot of questions about the testimony from the last 2 hearings…
Pic 1 = pic 6 from my hot mess post from the other day {attempt to read it if you dare}. It’s a quote from Brett Payne in the PCA.
[Pg 6., bottom paragraph]
Pic 2 = a quick & sloppy map I whipped up that points out the roads ruled out (in today’s testimony) from having video evidence of the car from that area. The roads are listed below. (The color lines aren’t on the roads, as to not block them out; they’re pointers for the main roads they’re near)
Note: by “ruled out,” in regard to video evidence, I mean currently (or completely) unavailable because the Prosecution cannot immediately provide, or does not possess them, or Payne and/or Mowry confirmed that it does not exist, or the video exists but was confirmed today to not show the car.
SO Brett Payne’s testimony today confirmed which routes actually had no camera footage of the car. It seems to eliminate most - maybe all - of the possible routes out of Moscow.
- it also confirmed all of the inconsistencies erratically demonstrated in hot mess post (aside from the ones on WSU campus), seem to be bc, as we’ve learned today, those videos don’t exist, are currently lost, or do not actually show the car.
I’m trying to wrap my head around what video could exist considering what was excluded…..
Pic 1
Based on1 my knowledge of the area2 and review of camera footage in the neighborhood that does not show Suspect vehicle 1 during that timeframe, I believe3 that Suspect Vehicle 1 likely exited the neighborhood at Palouse River Drive and Conestoga Drive. Palouse River Drive is at the southern edge of Moscow and proceeds into Whitman County,4 Washington. Eventually the road leads to Pullman Washington.5
I can’t tell what it’s based on.
He testified to knowledge of the area that matches the ACTUAL path of the route shown (bottom portion of pic 1), rather than what’s described in the PCA (quote)
From his testimony today, this statement in the PCA seems to mean that he literally based his belief of the vehicle’s route, on videos that do NOT show the vehicle. (and/or based it on knowledge of the area that was inaccurate at the time). Otherwise, I can’t determine what could be the actual basis of this belief, given the video evidence that was ruled out today. (pic 2)
No it doesn’t.
It doesn’t.
Pic 2
They went over each route today.
For roads not mentioned, they’d have to get on one of the roads already ruled out. They didn’t have any videos on these roads of the car coming or going…
- Red: Pullman-Moscow HWY (where Floyd’s Cannabis, & Red Star Coffee are, but they ruled out vids from this rd in its entirety) [road is below red line]
- Orange: HWY 95 [left of orange line]* *
- Yellow: Troy Rd [below]
- Green: Indian Hills* [above]
- Blue Pallouse River Rd -> Sand Rd [above] -> Johnson -> Bishop (this is the route partially shown on the PCA map, accompanying the inaccurate description quoted]
- Purple: Old Pullman HWY*
Orange - note - while this was said generally like, “no videos from 95,” from context, it seemed to be only in regard to leaving Moscow. (I still consider the gas station video from 3:28 as probably still in the game.)
Green - note - I put an asterisk by Indian Hills Rd. bc i missed 1 thing they said about it (appx 2 sentences).
• I remember they said they cannot find the footage from the residence on this road
* it was given directly to an officer who I believe had a feminine name.
• Anne Taylor questioned “why” that officer went to “that house” for video (as if there may be something more to this one)
• Payne gave a standard, acceptable answer, but it gave no hint as to why Anne Taylor asked that about why that specific video was given to that specific officer.
• They currently have no vids from this Rd.
• if you know what I missed from this segment, based on the take-always ^ I got from it, LMK pls :) I wanted to go back, but since it ended up being so long, & IDK what was said bc I didn’t hear it, it’d like finding a needle in a haystack.
• — there’s a small chance that whatever I missed was a complete reversal of the statement that rules out vids from Indian Hills Rd (hence this disclosure) but that’s doubtful.
Purple - note - Old Pullman HWY has an asterisk bc there was a clarification about this that I’d typically double-check, but, again, long AF, & I believe it’s depicted according to the clarification. They discussed this road along with the Moscow-Pullman highway. They distinguished the one with the coffee shop from what she called [old] “Pullman HWY,” bc the other [Pullman HWY] is known as Moscow-Pullman HWY. I think what I have here matches what was clarified, but would want to rewatch before stating as fact
Notes
- Anne Taylor mentioned Prosecutors turned in the full King Rd. video with audio on 05/10/2024
- For all of the non-Pullman locations in the hot mess post that I thought were videos, (because the PCA says the vehicle “was observed” or “was next seen”), there are actually no videos to accompany those statements [possibly ‘yet’ for some].
- It’s getting difficult to rationalize this many different, critical things being unavailable for so many unique reasons
- {its reminding me of the Delphi case}
- These last 2 hearings changed my view of the investigation but IDK what to make of it. Prior, I thought they’d built the case around what they thought was solid, but not so much, & there were a few mistakes or inconsistencies here or there. Now IDK.
- I don’t see how they could lose, misplace, or forget about the existence of so much evidence for 1.5 yrs.
— all of the crucial videos (some provided a week or two ago; most still missing).
— all of the cell phone evidence (turned in on 05/22/2024) aside from the previously submitted report “draft” {but only the FBI’s materials are replicable; what was shown to grand jury is not (Mowery’s testimony appx 44 mins in, Sy Ray’s testimony today, extensively)}
Questions
PAYNE [especially for people who watched today’s testimony]
1 - What could Brett Payne’s belief about the route taken out of Moscow possibly be based on?
- Think he literally means (in the PCA) that he based his opinion of the route the car used to leave, on videos that do not show the car leaving?
2 - What did you think about his testimony? • I thought he did a good job of remaining stately while explaining shortcomings of the investigation. I don’t excuse the absence of so much evidence, but I appreciated his forthrightness and i liked how respectful he was to Anne Taylor the whole time.
HEARINGS
3 - Has Steve G. released a statement about these past 2 hearings yet? * I’m curious about what any of the parents have to say about them, but he’s the one im most expecting to make a statement
4 - Have these past 2 hearings changed your view of the investigation?
5 - Did anyone catch the name of the FBI examiner who identified the car?
• sounded like “imall” (e mall) or something
MISSING EVIDENCE
6 - Why didn’t they notice each of the missing crucial things, which they’ll need for trial, were unaccounted for? — & since they didn’t notice it was missing or forgot they’d ever had it, they made no attempt to try to find any of it for over a year? (CAST Report, call detail records, residential videos of the car, businesses’ videos of the car, tower records) - How? :<
7 - Evidence that was not lost from December, 2022 to May, 2024 = the DNA. Is there anything else that is not currently lost, or was not lost for over 1.5 yrs?
8 - Do you think the abundant “missing” videos & “forgotten” materials from the FBI were actually all [lost, never obtained, forgotten about] from all those different reasons coinciding? * that would be a lot of unfortunate coincidences * or negligence, some might say
9 - How could they forget they had the real CAST files when those were provided (April) during the same timeframe they’d be preparing presentations for the (May) grand jury proceedings - by making their own visualizations, to use in place of the ones they had forgot were provided by the FBI in December - given they just received the completed work from the FBI again, which they were making replacements for?
10 - Why not just ask the FBI to resend it again if it was rly lost? * rather than make their own CAST visualizations about the FBI’s data, without using the FBI’s data (mentioned appx 13 mins into Mowery’s testimony). * if there is a reason to make their own, why not save the work logs for their CAST visualizations, knowing theirs would not be replicable (Mowery, appx 44 mins in; Sy Ray, extensively) like the “FBI version” (Mowery), especially since this is such an important case?
ROUTE
11 - How could Suspect Vehicle 1 have exited the King Rd neighborhood without being on the cameras by I-95 & Styner, Ridge Rd, Palouse Rd, or Pullman HWY?
12 - How could Suspect Vehicle 1 have exited Moscow without being seen on any of the cameras on the roads mentioned in today’s testimony (pic 2)? * it would have to be something other than what Payne believed (I wish she asked him how he formed his belief)
![Videos / Routes ruled out based on today’s testimony [Re: Hot mess post] image](https://enm-prod-tns.sfo3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/04a04b4cee3ae3cf52252f935822b980-md.jpg)
![Videos / Routes ruled out based on today’s testimony [Re: Hot mess post] image](https://enm-prod-tns.sfo3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/1c47b98c313e63e269d10fee30163ba2-md.jpg)
denial sadly, they are grasping onto dna sheath
Ironic - given it was grasping the sheath which got Kohberger into jail.
His car wasn't on Palouse River Dr. either though --- or on 95 by Blaine at 4:48
How do you know (1) if there are videos available on or from Palouse River Dr ? (2) if there are any videos on area of HW 95 near Blaine ?
No one has said he was on HE 95 near Blaine - that is an option, he may have been on minir roads closer to Blaine. His phone is near Blaine at 4.48am, we don't yet know what specific area.
the Elantra is not on the footage from Ridge Rd. at the right time,
What is the "right time" - you are now just parroting defense argumentative statements with zero understanding.
It drove by none of the cameras we know of at the right time.
Except for the cameras at King Road between 3.30am and 4.20am, several times? And Walenta Drive after 4.20am, and Indian Hills Drive at 3.26am etc etc etc ?
You are becoming very hard to follow or understand, and very illogical.
The two routes, HW 95 south and HW 8 are not "ruled out". What we can infer (but was not stated definitely) is that private security cameras from several businesses did not seem to have captured a white Elantra driving away from Moscow c 5.00am on either road. And if indeed HW 95 is ruled out, that is largely irrelevant.
On HW 95 south, video was taken from two businesses (Mundy's Machine and Wasankari Construction) - despite some confusion over whether defence have only received video after 5.00am, from Payne's response that HW 95 was noted as a "possible route" in the PCA it seems likely the car was not seen going south near Moscow on HW 95 after 4.20am.
There are many other routes by which the suspect car could leave the King Road area and have driven south to Blaine or near Blaine without driving on HW 95 or HW 8 (a few are roughly and quickly highlighted on the map below, the red arrows point to alternative routes to Blaine, 4 routes are highlighted but there are at least 7). These routes include driving west toward Pullman on the back-road from Palouse River Drive and then heading south, or taking one of three minor roads going south to the east of and roughly parallel to HW 95. There are several routes to Palouse River Drive from Conestoga Drive or Walenta Drive (where the car was seen leaving King Road). We know from the previous hearing that many of the HW/ main road traffic cameras do not retain video - which was why police had searched Windy.com which does record images from traffic cameras. We also know that Kohberger took an extra c 15-20 minutes to drive to the area of Blaine vs the shortest drive time/ route (it is a c 8 minute drive on HW 95, he took c 28 minutes) so he may well have taken a more circuitous, minor road (and or stopped along the way, or doubled back on himself after leaving Moscow).
That Kohberger's car was not on video on HW 95 south after 4.20am could mean:
- he drove another route, e.g. along Palouse River Drive west or east and then south toward Blaine on one of the several minor roads which go to or near Blaine and also connect to HW 95 much further south of Moscow
- motion activated cameras on businesses didn't capture the road, or did not record at the time the suspect car passed
Probergers seems to be wildly over extrapolating and illogically ignoring the many other routes to the area of Blaine from King Road, ignoring the phone data placing Kohberger and his car there at 4.48am and also seeming to extrapolate from absence of video well beyond what that implies and the geographical areas in scope.
If it is impossible to drive to near Blaine without being on camera, we'd expect the defence to be able to find video of a white Elantra driving to Blaine from a route that precludes it having come from Moscow or being at King Road c 4.20am.
What is worse is that Jellly then later claimed the exchanges on forensics indicated that people there agreed with her.... it is very odd behaviour- either dishonest, trolling or pathological inability to accept when incorrect
where we learned that the videos mentioned in the PCA do not actually show the car.
The c 21 videos which are specifically stated in the PCA to show the car, don't show the car? Including the multiple King Rd sightings on video the defence reviewed - no car in those..?
What is described from videos in the PCA as not having a front licence plate - a very speedy shopping trolley? What was doing three point turns and speeding from the scene - a very low altitude flying carpet?
You seem to either grossly misunderstand what was said and/ or are in bonkers conspiracy echo chamber.
Proberger > Prohater (what a silly insult compared to Ko/Proberger pun
And an absolute dereliction of the duty to rhyme.
Is there any evidence that was not lost from December 2022 to May 2024 besides the DNA?
I wonder what the 50 Terabytes of discovery was that Ms Taylor keeps complaining about? Do you really think all evidence was lost until May 2024? I wonder what was presented to the Grand Jury? How baffling.
He’ll be here to say a totally random factual thing
WhatHo! I just corrected your statement that there is no video of the car leaving the King Road area, with a "factual thing" of the videos of the car leaving the area. You should try writing something factual, even if occassionally and for a wee change.
when he presented the wrong # as the single-source result in the Daybell case (it was 1 in 71 billion),
Would that be the reference I made to the 604 octillion to one DNA random match probability. I can see why you think the match there was 71 billion to 1 and that every news organisation seems to be conspiring against you...
Payne said the videos were lost or do not show the car.
Alas, i fear you have misunderstood what was said, and or are in some bonkers conspiracy mode. Clearly the 21 videos in the PCA show the car and these are not lost. Do try to get a grip and use some tiny semblance of common sense.
They’re not disagreeing with ‘me.’
Well, they seem to be disagreeing with what you wrote. And then, rather oddly, you seem to be commenting elsewhere that they agreed with you. It is rather baffling.
We learned yesterday
I assume "we" is some extra special, secret squirrel Proberger special operations internet research unit operating from a garden shed or roadside hut?
Everyone else knows that the videos mentioned in the PCA exist....
just a random guy who deleted their comments later.
Odd, the comment is still there, undeleted, stating your position is "categorically false". Here it is:
There was a lady in there who said she had 20 years of experience
So the guy who disagrees is a "random" but the lady is not Odd. He seems to be verified on forensics. Also odd the lady did not agree with you either. How puzzling! There were several other people, also verified on forensics sub it seems, who also disagreed with you. It is almost as if you are so highly selective you ignore every source of info that disagrees with whatever odd idea you have latched onto.
You are misunderstanding. This suggests as the car is not seen exiting by other routes it is thought to exit by Palouse river Drive edit - typo "exit"
win the Kohlitzer Prize
😂🤣😂🤣 I hear Anne T is in line for a Kohbel prize after her latest decimation of the prosecution case.
why don’t you watch Brett Payne describe how every video aside from the ones at the Kkng Rd neighborhood
Oh my, how absolutely careless of the police to list 18 other videos but either then lose all the videos or have invented those videos out of thin air! I am sure that will be a problem if evidence mentioned in the PCA doesn't actually exist.
On the sheath DNA being single source not mixed, I think that is pretty clearly established.
people think BK committed the murders because of the big bad “media
I feel personally attacked by this comment. I was convinced that DM had done it in collaboration with Chief Fry, the FBI and Uoi Tourism Dept (the Tuber Troika,) until I read in my quarterly magazine, "Idaho - Town, Tunnels and Taters" about DNA, car videos, descriptions. Plus I read that Kohberger is into Thai food - filthy, exotic, fancy hoity-toity non-potato based nonsense!
Oddly your "version" has no similarity to the actual testimony transcript. How odd!
They say
Are these the same people who say the videos in the PCA don't show the car?
Watch the testimony. It's Day 22
I think you may be confusing a recent episode of the Bold and Beautiful you watched, or Dazed and Baffled, with court testimony.
He says it right here
Err, no he doesn't. In that clip he is talking about obtaining videos from the possible routes the car took going south after 4.20am.. that does mean all of the other 21 videos in the PCA don't exist
Gosh! That would be 18 instances of perjury then! I wonder why, if Payne said the PCA videos do not exist, the defence did not move to quash the PCA as it is based on evidence that does not exist ( and have the perjury actioned by the court too) - any thoughts?
You seem to be reverting now to complete fiction, fabrication and invention. Some of those streets were not mentioned, while others you list e.g. :
Indian Hills Rd
Johnson Road
are specifically mentioned in the PCA as having white Elantra car videos.
Others you mention, e.g
Moscow-Pullman HWY
are specifically mentioned in defence filings as having car sighting videos ( e.g. Floyds Cannabis is on this rd)
You really must try to base your comments and arguments on at least some slight element of fact, not these silly lists of things you invent, want to be true but have no basis, or just things you fabricate or imagine.
Comedy genius. Thanks. All the evidence was lost; the defence got zero videos;
If all the evidence was lost, was only CAST snips presented to the Grand Jury?
doesn’t recall ever finding a video that shows the car
This refers to the car going south Moscow c 4.20am, not in general
Despite saying or implying there were 18 to 21 of them (# source: u/repulsive-dot553)
The 18/ 21 videos is the number of video locations listed in the PCA for Nov 13th, not just in relation to the period after 4.20am going south from Moscow
That is relating to video of car going south at 4.20am, not saying none of the videos in the PCA exist. You seem detached from the facts are have misunderstood, or are trolling.
They have no videos besides the one from King Rd.
So, the c 18 videos in the PCA don't exist?
He doesn’t recall ever finding a video depicting the car
Oh, so Officer Payne cannot recall ever finding any video with the suspect car?
Wow, any idea why he mentioned 21 videos with the car in them in the PCA?
It seemed he was directing Ms Taylor to the evidence centre for other videos, not mentioned in the PCA and you have misunderstood somewhat.....
not my info tho it’s something I asked about and have no connection to the answer being one thing or the other
Oh, really? Because it seemed from your many, many comments on the subject that you were arguing that the sheath DNA was not single source and that the match stats were unusual, unique in some way - arguments described as totally false by the folks on the forensics subs and also completely contradicted by info in court filings Encouraging that you now acknowledge the mixed source DNA argument was nonsense and the match stats are sound.
More than half of it was a lie or they no longer have
So you are saying half of the car videos mentioned in the PCA no longer exist or the police/ prosecution no longer have? Where did these videos go?
Yes he does I think it’s mentioned right around 1
No, it isn't. You are fabricating and fabulating again.
challenged meemaw to a mildly sexualized rap battle on the Tik-Tok
Was that a rap about an elderly lady re-enacting the Pearl Harbour attack, while dressed as Little Bo-Peep and wielding a cucumber as an anti-aircraft cannon? Tenders would have excelled in both theatrics and costumery.
IDK what vids were shown to the Grand Jury.
Well, according to you - none, as none show the car and no evidence other than DNA was available.... must have been a real short grand jury as they could only share the DNA... probably finished by 9.25am.
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Except for this?
https://preview.redd.it/l3huqpo99r3d1.jpeg?width=1038&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c044b34356740f86b2106ac69f19e744fdb2b39f
This is so far from what was stated as to be verging on moon-howling gibberish. Is your position really that every piece of evidence has been lost?