Coming soon - Get a detailed view of why an account is flagged as spam!
view details

This post has been de-listed

It is no longer included in search results and normal feeds (front page, hot posts, subreddit posts, etc). It remains visible only via the author's post history.

16
Labels as self-expression rather than descriptions
Post Body

I've noticed a trend in the social justice left of treating someone's label or identity solely as an issue of self-expression rather than a way to describe or characterize people. Whether a label applies to a person is determined not on the label having any specific meaning and people an evaluation of whether that meaning applies to that person, but rather it's determined by whether that individual identifies with the label, and it's wrong to question their decision (it's often described as questioning their "experiences" or even invalidating their existence as a person!).

This happens most often for gender. In discussions on Reddit I've said that identifying as the other gender makes sense if you suffer from gender dysphoria (and a dissociation from your body/hormones/etc. that you try to fix), but not if you're just someone who doesn't fit into your gender role (because gender is not the same thing as gender rolesโ€”a tomboy or masculine woman is still a woman). I received some negative responses for this because it means that if a person identifies as the opposite gender specifically because of not fitting into gender roles then I disagree with them about their identity.

This basically defines man as "someone who identifies as a man", and woman as "someone who identifies as a woman", rather than "someone who meets [whatever descriptive criteria]".

This comes up most often for gender (because that's where questioning people's identities happens most at the moment, due to controversy over what gender means and the idea of people being transgender) but I've also seen it for other labels, especially related to sexual orientation (e.g. a man can be attracted to men and have sex with them but it doesn't mean he isn't straight, all that matters is whether he personally identifies as gay/straight/bisexual).

Does anyone have any insight onto this topic? Not about gender specifically, but rather the broader idea that you're not supposed to question or disagree with people's labels/identities. I'm interested in other examples, where this comes from, and whether you think it makes sense.

On one hand I can understand the idea that I can't dictate how you see yourself. But on the other hand, you can't dictate how I see you either. If you don't meet my definition for a label then I won't really see that label as applying to you, even if you use it on yourself. For example, if you identify as vegan as an act of self-expression of concern for animal well-being but you don't actually fit my definition of vegan of not eating meat or animal products (perhaps you eat meat once a week) then I won't really consider you a vegan.

Author
Account Strength
100%
Account Age
12 years
Verified Email
No
Verified Flair
No
Total Karma
243,156
Link Karma
2,355
Comment Karma
240,531
Profile updated: 3 days ago
Posts updated: 7 months ago
Egalitarian Non-Feminist

Subreddit

Post Details

We try to extract some basic information from the post title. This is not always successful or accurate, please use your best judgement and compare these values to the post title and body for confirmation.
Posted
7 years ago