I choose to live my life with a modest self appreciation. My goal in life is to always do my best and to live up to Christ's Great Commandment. My ability to write, my ability to understand what to write, are all gifts that God granted to me, and I always want to appreciate that.

There were times in my life where I wasn't always as certain who or what I was, and what my role in life was. A failed marriage, a mom with two kids, barely getting by, then one day I met my husband and my life was forever changed by a good man.

So its hard for me to take credit for being the answer to anyone's prayer, in fact, you are the answer to my prayers, I was able through my writing, help someone to have their prayers answered. How can there be anything more inspiring than that.

I can agree with that. My interpretation is likely different than most people's. But if you are Christian, or call yourself a Christian, then there are a few clear fundamentals to that believe.

I don't like the term non-monogamous because it sounds too clinical and I think it has become popular because of that. Adding ethical to it does not make sense. The opposite of monogamy is polygamy.

I believe that we are having Recreational Sex that we share with others.

But you raised the correct point. It is about an interpretation of faith. I would rather that interpretation be my own verses a centuries old Church doctrine or any one of the 40,000 Christian doctrines floating around.

Well crafted argument. It's difficult whenever you want or need to express motivations, but I will try. I enjoy sex, sexual expression, and sexual pleasure. Baptize is a very powerful word and while I don't believe that Recreational Sex is a sin, those beliefs are my own and I don't have a desire to Baptize anything. I do think that there is a lot, (not just sexual issues) with Christian doctrine that I do not believe in and are self serving of a society that was in vogue 1600 years ago. From the selection of Canon to the differences and winners and losers of early Church doctrine.

It's true I am on a journey to better understand the essence of Christianity. And while I do take a contrary position to what some scripture says, I do challenge the context of much of it.

I do really appreciate one thing you said. You are right, faith is more than just this topic. Faith is a LOT of things and faith is sometimes our biggest challenge. During my first marriage, fresh out of Catholic school, steeped and participating in the Catholic faith, I was in a very dark and unhappy place. I ended up in an adulterous relationship, drove my self into abusive relationships, and doubted my faith. So I understand adultery from a very emotional level. It is a horrible violation of trust. But it wasn't the only violation of trust at work at that time in my life.

Today love and trust are the foundation of my moral life. Christ is the foundation of my spiritual and religious life. If my frustration with Church doctrine was solely based on its negative casts over sex, I would have to concede that "I just enjoy the sex argument". I try to visit a lot of Churches, go more than once so I can understand there rationale. Some of the more mission focused Churches almost seem to have a salvation chip on their shoulder. I have heard it, "you are sinning because you do not agree with how my Church views"... what it means to be a Christian, or who Christ was, or what His message was.

You and I may never agree on matters of sex with others. That's ok. We can still have a very healthy dialog about other Christian issues and from time to time, you are encourage and welcome to throw a dart my way over it. In the end, we may all be getting it wrong and won't really know the truth until Christ returns to us.

Hope we meet someday in real-life. I would expect coffee with you would be a great way to spend a morning!

Yes - 45,000 different doctrines (some say only 40,000).

My Christian path has wound around many curves. For a while, I just "settled" on doctrine and sex and just about everything. I ended up with a divorce. My second marriage we have been very active in the Church. Taught Sunday School, served on the Church School Board (our Church has a K-8 private school). Served in any capacity ask. Volunteered for the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts. Lead a pretty normal Christian live.

But college planted a seed both in myself and my husband to understand how the Christian Church, Bible and Religions traditions and doctrines came about. Why we go to Church on Sunday instead of the Sabbath. Why do we ignore some Old Testament laws such as the unclean foods, yet observe others? I sincerely wanted a better understanding. Where this lead us was to go back to the specific nature of Christ. AND the conclusion that what matters is what is in the Gospels. And to drill down from there, what was the things that Christ specifically asked us to do. How to pray. Observe the Lord Supper.

The later created a crisis for me when I married the second time. I was told I could no longer have communion. When I switched to a new Church, I was told I could not take communion until I was a member of the Church. I went to the Mormon Church where a teenage boy busted up a loaf of bread and gave it to me with a cup of water (because Christ never drank wine). The journey was messing with me and depressing me. I was a good Catholic/Lutheran girl.

When I took a graduate level course in Church Doctrine (I am not in theology, my degrees are marketing and communications). I took the class because I was really interested in the topic. I learned that the creation of a doctrine often started with one person's belief. The reason there are so many doctrines is because they are a creation of mankind. And thus it is fair for a person to say that they can create their own doctrine.

The oldest Church doctrines go back to the separation of Orthodox and Catholic Churches. Remember that James (Jesus' Brother) was the first leader of the Christian Church. Overly simplified, James, Peter and John ran the Jewish version of the Church and ministered to the Jews who followed Christ. Paul and Barnabas had the permission from James and the Jerusalem Church to minister to the Gentiles *(simplified, everyone not Jewish).

So here is a part of my case and something for you to ponder. Paul form of Christianity eventually found favor with the leader of Rome, Emperor Constantine. This was the seed that eventually became the Great Schism. Our western view of Christianity is based upon Paul who lead the Church from Rome to the Gentiles. The decisions on what books made it into the Bible and which were not AND the earliest Church doctrines were political in nature.

James, who believed, following his interpretation of the Great Commission, that the church must observe the Torah, i.e. the rules of traditional Judaism, and Paul the Apostle, who called himself "Apostle to the Gentiles", who believed there was no such necessity.

So apologies and thank you for reading all of this so I could make my point. I don't care about sex. Yes this subreddit is all about sex, but I am most concerned about how doctrine is used to drive a wedge between myself and my beliefs, between you and I as Christians, between how our Churches view other Churches. So when I say I want a "New Doctrine". I want to go back and refocus on my belief that Christ came to this world for the forgiveness of my sins, that believing in Him I will not perish, the miracles He performed, His death and resurrection, His accenting into Heaven and the representation that He provides men to God and the heavenly hosts. And to observe His Great Commandment and Great Commission and everything else He directed us to observe.

Christ set the bar clearly for how we are saved. John 3:16. We also know that He works through us for His own goals. If we believe in Him then He will steer us down the best path for each of us. The majority of Church doctrine tells us we should fear everything dealing with sex. The moment you cross the threshold of your bedroom door, sex becomes bottled up behind you. This puts sex into a dark place. To me that is not what Christianity is all about. And if I am wrong, my intentions were still pure, and I can still rely on my belief in Christ that my sins will be forgiven. Do you love Christ? Do you want to lead a Christian life? Which is clearly defined by his Great Commandment and the Great Commission. I know that I have made too many mistakes to count. Too many sins to remember to ask forgiveness for them all. And I will be forgiven.

It does if you think about it. What is the standard that Christ set for salvation? John 3:16. When Christ returns and we have all risen from the dead, the process is very clear and Christ is our advocate and God will look into our hearts. There is no doubt that there is evil in this world. The evil will not be saved. Our God is a loving and forgiving. The only way one can lose one's salvation is to deny Christ.

You are right! Most sermons are designed to teach us about Biblical History, Biblical Morales, Celebrate Christian traditions, but other than abstaining from sex, we hear nothing else. No wonder we freak other Christians out when we discuss having recreational sex.

But the Bible does teach us some sex positive lessons that rarely pop up in sermons.

When the Bible says two become one, it is recognizing that sex is the glue that bonds couples together. It's why in my 4 types of sex comments, I always stress that my husband and I have Sex to express our love and Recreational Sex as a form of pleasure that we share with others.

If a pastor is involved and that pastor hasn't told her that withholding sex is wrong, then he isn't do his job. In a court of law, in a divorce, the withholding sex can be strong evidence for a court to find constructive abandonment. The Bible provides directives that neither of you should deprive the other of sex. It's wrong. For me, that would be a sign that I am no longer loved in the marriage.

So I realize you did not want a so called Christian to comment on your sex life. I hope what I said made sense to you, and I hope that your future girlfriends or wife (I noted the Ex-wife comment), will never withhold sex from you and you likewise, never withhold sex for them.

And finally - forgive the pulpit. Sex is hard for the clergy of most Churches to discuss. They are well meaning, but lack an understanding of the role sex does play in our lives.

Thank you for putting the effort into posting and I really do hope your future is full of great sex! Sincerely, LV-Vixen

Thank you for the post and your points are well taken. But I would push back some in saying that the major theme in the Bible is sex. Most who have taken a dive beyond what Sunday or Sabbath School teaches you understand that the most common themes are the "great biblical themes are about God, his revealed works of creation, provision, judgment, deliverance, his covenant, and his promises" [credit: this is a common quote you will see in many textbooks - no my own words.

The question that you asked after that is spot on. Why do Church fathers and almost all doctrines focus on sexual themes. I don't believe Church doctrine to be the inspired work of the Holy Spirit as many suggest. I can accept that argument for the inspired portions of the Old and New Testaments.

Your last sentence is the crux of the biscuit (to quote Frank Zappa! Referring to the "Heart of the Matter").

I believe, without shame, the Recreational Sex, shared with my husband and others is perfectly acceptable within Christian behaviors. Being Christian and our interactions with others (sexual or otherwise) is very much about what is in Your Heart. Are you doing this just because you want to have sex with someone's very hot wife or are you wanting to, (with your spouse) share great recreational sex with others and enjoying being within that moment.

Thank you for the post!

I might tend to agree with this, but I would add, that sin comes from the heart and head. You can have only one swinging partner who you play with regularly, and if in your heart, they are just an object for pleasure and not a person who is allowing you to be deeply intimate with them, then you could be acting in a sinful manner. Conversely you could have dozens of partners and if you are connecting in a respectful, personal and spiritual way, then it may not be a sinful act.

I appreciate the sentiment. But it is God who answers prayers. We and I are simply tools.

If you don't mind - DM me about this. I am trying to get a better understanding of this. There are so many opinions.

Baylor is one of the most beautiful campuses - being an Iowa girl and having family that went to Iowa State (I went to U of Iowa), I have been there for more than one football game. The campus is so rich in tradition and so classic. You must have really enjoyed going to school there!

Addressing the leaps I take. You may not think they are valid, but I would disagree that they are unfounded. I have spent time with several professors who have contributed to my beliefs system.

But I am curious as to which leaps you feel are unfounded. Let's have a dialog about the specifics. I would really appreciate hearing your understanding and interpretations!

Thank you!

Very cool that you have a Masters of Divinity! Where did you attend seminary? Any specific Church denomination? I am sure it would be delightful picking your brain. Lately I have been focused on a better understanding of the Trinity. Just read Trinitarian Theology by Whitfield. I want a better understanding with the concept that if Christ came to earth as a man, then how can He be one substance with the Father. Did that come later. Is there equality between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or is it a relationship of subordination? Inquiring girls want to know!

I was hoping part of the answer would be in this text, but it proved to be more of a justification of the Trinity and less what I was hoping to better understand. Though this isn't the appropriate subreddit for that dialog.

Thanks for the post.

My definition of doctrine is accurate. Technically there are more than 45,000 according to the Professor I work with at U of I. That's just Christian doctrine. Obviously there are many times more doctrines than that if you were to add in political doctrines, ideology doctrines, et al. The 45,000 number is generally used because between the major Christian Branches, there are globally 45,000 Christian Church denominations.

No, I attended a few Mormon services in my 20s. Could not buy into their messaging. I run into a lot of them in the lifestyle here in Vegas.

Most of my opinions have been from taking graduate level courses or auditing the same. When you do a deep dive into Catholicism, Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrians and Restorationism sometimes. Study the history of how each of these Churches came about, you may begin to understand my position. The Ecumenical Councils were largely political in nature, at first attempting to avoid the splintering of the Church and its doctrines, and later as a form of one-ups man ship on who held the morale high ground.

So my journey with this really started when I realized how far the Church, as far back as 325 AD had diverged. I read an interesting textbook that I borrowed from a Pastor that I will try and find the title of for you. It is a history of Christianity from the birth of Christ to the First Council of Nicaea called by Emperor Constantine. How Paul and Barnabas forged one path and how James (Jesus Brother aka James the Just), Peter and John took things in a different direction. Those were two radically different doctrines. Western Churches (including the Catholic faith) tend to be very dismissive of other doctrines, stating often and loudly why their doctrine is the "correct doctrine". One easy to understand example is the belief that you can gain entry to heaven based on your "works (and faith)" and those who read the same text and believe that your entry into heaven is based on faith alone.

Everyone has their faith and their doctrinal belief system. I am not interested in getting anyone to change their minds. I still consider myself Lutheran, but I realize that there is a lot of Church doctrine that goes clear back to 325 AD that was political in nature. I am fine with that. All I do suggest is that people take some time to learn from a wealth of well documented history and peel back the veil of time and examine what it meant to be Christian to Christ's followers. Both the Gentile version lead by Paul and the Jewish version lead by James the Just.

No - actually I do get the point. Remember, I titled the post to address the common questions that I get. I wasn't attempting to legitimize or propose the questions.

I am proposing a simple answer.

From the perspective of doctrine (all 45,000 unique Christian Doctrines) obviously the majority all tend to originate from the First Council of Nicaea where the first Bible was canonized (deciding which books were in and which were out).

I am not a fan of the term swinging (for lots of reasons), but it is the term we have. I prefer as you will note from all of my writings, the term(s) Shared Recreational Sex. There are many doctrines that believe sex that is not for the purposes of procreation is a sin, even if that sex is between a husband and a wife. There are other doctrines that believe as I do that sex is just fine.

My personal doctrine does attempt to add that there are good ways and evil ways to experience and participate in Shared Recreational Sex.

So I understand your point of view as I grew up and was raised in it. I am just pointing out that I was not posting a question, but rather a point of view.

Thank you for your posts!

LV-Vixen

You are welcome.

This is the too often, too common story. What you posted in the second half of your original message was "Doctrine". There are estimated to be between 40,000 and 45,000 different Christian doctrines. Doctrines are made up by man to express how a Church and its congregation should express faith.

There are many doctrines and many Churches who believe that any sex other than for the purposes of procreation is a sin. That a husband and wife cannot have sex, just for the pleasure of having sex.

Often Christ leaves us to our own devices to express our faith and how we choose to worship.

So your wife read something that convinced her that she would put her faith and salvation at risk. You have to respect that. But I would offer up two lessons.

1) To be Christian starts with Christ. He gave us the Great Commandment and told us to hold it up above all other Commandments. He gave us the Great Commission which is to spread His message and hews to all corners of the earth. If you study how He spoke. How He treated others.

2) Sex. Throughout our lives we have shared sex with different purposes. We shared sex in Courtship (though not always intercourse), we shared sex in Love and Marriage, we shared sex for the purposes of starting at family. AND we have sex recreationally because it is pleasurable. I choose to also share God's gift of Sex Recreationally with others (with my husband always present). We never lie, we don't have sex under the cover of deceit. This is what can turn the gift of sex into a sin, into adultery, a breach of the trust within our marriage vows.

Last part. Biblical translations sucketh. Go to Google and type Biblehub Matthew 5:27. You will see dozens of translations. Note the "Contemporary English Version" Translation. In a translation from Greek to English the translation was "Be faithful in Marriage". The second verse warns men not to "want" other women. I have recreational sex with others, but I am steadfastly loyal to my husband and my marriage doesn't waiver.

The last thing I would offer is the extension to scripture or what I call scripture bombs. The scripture was intended for those in that era. Parts of it carry forward to this day, such as Christ's Commandment and Commission which are timeless, a testament to Christ's status as part of the Trinity, as you would expect of the Son of God.

My final point will be; your marriage, your wife, your family, that is what is important. So if you wife after reading this still feels the way she does, respect that and remind yourself of the value of everything you have. Everything that Christ has given to you to cherish.

Congrats on being married for 8 years!

This will be an interested dialog. Thank you for the post!