I told him people don't wear seatbelts because they expect to get in an accident, they wear them to be safer if they do get in one. Be cautious. No one tells them don't drive, just be safe when you do. It's the same concept to me. Every man isn't a danger. There's enough danger that you should always be cautious when you can in case of that one time it's actually needed.

It drives me crazy because it's like THIS topic makes people so angry but ask the average person if they teach their child stranger danger... Everyone is not out to kidnap your kids. But you still teach them don't go with or talk to strangers. It's common sense. You teach your kids to try to profile who is safe to help you if you're not around. Why is it so preposterous for women to do the same?

Yea I was SA by an ex and would often hear i "should have known better and there had to have been signs I just ignored". "I was dumb". Things like that. But I would also hear "every man isn't like that". "Shouldn't write off dating men because of what one man did". "Stop acting like every man is a danger just because you screwed up with one man". So like... Be cautious or not? What am I supposed to do?

I know logically that's why I'm so cautious of people in general, especially men, that and what's been going on with the case resulting from that SA (bad enough that when I got attacked in the park I refused to report ANYTHING). But it's hard to see everything happening, experience everything, and still tell my sister don't be afraid. So I'm lost at this point on how to guide her and my other little sisters later beyond CYA and leave if they fear someone at work or somewhere else.

Not all women have a personal story but I personally have yet to meet a woman who doesn't have a story. Know someone. Heard something. Was warned about something. Had it done to them. It's always something.

I just mentioned in a comment it confuses me how women doing risk analysis is offensive to men but no one bats an eye when you teach your child stranger danger and "ways to tell who is safe" if they get separated from you. Everyone knows not every person will kidnap or hurt a kid. Most people likely wouldn't. But that risk and the danger is big enough you still teach them stranger danger and that's normal to people. Yet somehow women being cautious of men is not? "Profiling" men and avoiding who seems dangerous is not?

It was a legitimate fight to make marital rape a crime because people thought that isn't actually rape. It's your partner, it's expected to have sex even when you don't feel up to it. And some places still haven't made it a crime. There's a lot of things that people don't think is harassment or bad as it actually is. Not to mention, I spoke to the DA recently and they brought up how they often lower charges for SA because they are more likely to plead to smaller charges while a jury will often dismiss or give way smaller time for cases "like mine"... Where there isn't physical violence or drugs involved. And that she believes one of the reasons is they see a SA or Rape without violence as not being that bad and possibly not even a SA... And I think unfortunately a lot of people including women feel that way. "It could be worse". "It wasn't painful" "it wasn't a stranger in a dark alley". All sorts of things.

I just told a commenter that they are actively ignoring the biggest perpetrators of violence against men... Is also men. So don't bring up "it takes one crazy woman" when we're talking about being cautious. Are you more worried about drowning in the ocean/being swept away in a current, or being killed by a shark... Don't ignore the shark, but the shark is definitely not what they teach you to worry about for safety because it's much less likely to kill you.

Truthfully this cousin is someone that doesn't get along with most of the family, even the more... Opinionated... Ones. I wasn't even aware he was in the house when the topic came up. My sister is 19 and started working while in college and have had experiences with creeps for year due to things like hitting puberty at 11 and some people just genuinely being icky. She was asking about what would a woman even be able to do in a situation like that and the best advice I could give her was leave. Because the victim reported to her job what was going on and they decided he was deranged enough to need counseling before coming back but still allowed him back and around her. Don't trust your job to help you with something dangerous like that.

And the way Texas laws work aren't really helpful for things like stalking or harassment. It's essentially, burden of proof on the victim and until something actually illegal happens, not much they (police) can or will do. Just like I had to explain to her Texas is a single party consent state. So someone is perfectly allowed to take photos of you in a public place or record you without your permission, she's a legal adult. And there are even laws "protecting" taking up skirt photos of someone because no clothes were removed without consent and single party consent can be argued. It's a mess.

I worry for her safety and while I want her to get help and advocate for CYA, I also remind her this is not a state kind to women and while it's illegal, retaliation at work happens and people will make opinions of you at work based off what they think and hear. And treat you accordingly. It's hard for me to balance be free and enjoy life but also be wary and stay safe. I know part of it is because of personal reasons (2 years of a SA case dragging on and questioning and everything going terribly). I just don't feel the justice system protects as they should. Or jobs often. The best I could suggest was CYA and leave.

Because you're actively choosing to ignore who is the biggest danger to men... Other men... My brother is more likely to be shot and killed by a pissed off man than a pissed off woman. Much more likely in fact. So your comment under their comment looks quite a bit like "not all men" arguments. Instead of being pedantic and saying that, you could have said "a better argument would have been-" . Instead you did that. You brought up a situation of oranges when we're talking about apples.

I can absolutely see that. I have a 6 year old and I told his teacher I've been struggling with teaching him stranger danger because I have to also teach him some strangers are okay like police officers or teachers or yada yada if we get separated. It's hard to balance people can hurt you but some people can help you and you have to be able to tell who is who.

I just want to point out a small edit that he did in fact kill the woman. He shot her 4-5 times in her cubicle at work after watching her sit in her car from outside. They (news and police) originally presented it as they (victim and killer) had an argument at work about either something with relationships or work and it led to the "altercation" but have now released what the killer told police actually happened. I do think he's a different type of evil for being perfectly content with admitting you practiced shooting just so you could kill this woman and waited for the perfect day. The entire thing is both sad and frustrating beyond belief.

Especially when my cousins reaction was "the job did do something about him, and he didn't stalk her, only watched her at work, you're making it worse than it is" or something like that to partner with his not all men. When men like the commenter you responded to goes into situations like this and mention how it harms men and basically different elaborate wording to say "not all men, what about me" I lump them together with my terrible cousin. Only thinking of the effect on yourself and not why it happens.

But if I remember correctly, there was some quote about men fear laughter and ridicule from women while women fear being killed by men. And this commenter seems to show that very well.

Yes actually, because your concern is with someone's choice of very specific words alluding to the smallest possibility you are included in a negative instead of the actual issue at hand. You are seeking to make you the center of attention and not what the actual issue is which to others show your concern is not with the topic, just how people look at you specifically. There are ways to make it known you don't agree with general statements without making it "you're attacking me". Especially given the context isn't even about you personally unless you're the one going around stalking and shooting people. "Men like that do make men look bad" "I try to speak up against those actions" anything but "so you're including me too?".

If you don't do that when someone makes a general statement that is positive, you should question why when it's negative. You know when something doesn't point to you. DO you tell someone when they say "men blah blah nice thing", not all men, not me? Or only get this way when it's bad.

I'm saying you shouldn't have brought it up because you are not looking to improve discussion, just start arguments, and that you clearly were not talking about violence against women but instead violence against men (which shows you are not responding in good faith and probably are one of the "not all men" we're discussing). And your comment, like many others I have argued with, are not even seeking to help men, just belittle the struggles of women. If you wanted to help men, you would acknowledge and seek to change what's the bigger threat to men. Do what would save more men. Actually care. That's not what you're doing.

I genuinely wish I could ease your worries but no... He has a step daughter that he tells the same things he says to all the time. That men aren't dangerous and she's not likely to be hurt and he's there isn't he so she'll be fine cause bad men won't come around a woman with a father in her life... Sir... What...

Your intention shows with how you responded. Again, there are ways to tell someone their argument has holes in it without doing what you did which was detract from the conversation while simultaneously disregarding the actual struggles men face. You could have just as easily said "a better argument would have been blah blah" "I think someone else gave the suggestion of blah blah" "it would be better to say blah blah because this argument can be turned this way or that". You weren't seeking to improve. Unless you're like the terrible coaches or managers that never give advice, just call you stupid and wrong. Or copy what you said in a condescending manner. If you think "blah blah der der der, see how stupid you sound?" is constructive criticism then you're terribly mistaken?

If you visit this subreddit often you have also seen how often feminist will quickly smack down a very non feminist opinion by someone claiming to be a feminist and even say that there are different categories of feminist (which is not really a thing for men in this context) but that certain feminist do make all feminist look bad. And that we don't associate with them. And that we push to make it known THROUGH ACTIONS and calling out those people that there are actually other types of feminist. You can also see that many will say the main reason for doing this is not because they worry what people will say if they associate with feminism, but because they don't want people to think negatively of feminism in the first place. This is not something that can be said for what you are doing and what many men do when it comes to these situations.

Here we have a situation where we're discussing "not all men" and the arguments and then in comes... Those that fall into that category like what you are doing. You're quite literally in other words going on a post about "not all men" types, and saying well it's not all men. I'm sure you can look through the comments and see the difference in responses to you and responses to other men who instead of saying not all men which we know already, make it known by saying what they do to showcase there are good men.

Truthfully, often when there is a post saying why do feminist blah blah, instead of saying not all feminist, we will often provide knowledge that there are some who that and some are not actual feminist, some are extremist and not feminist, some are whatever but that they do make others look bad. Does any of this make sense to you?

Yea when it first happened they made it out that the person shot the woman because of an argument they got into at work (so putting some of the blame on her being in an altercation). It was only a couple days ago or so they admitted the man willingly told police the whole story. From him stalking her. To her reporting him. Having to do counseling to go back to work. Her ignoring him after and people at work looking at him strangely. Being pissed about her ignoring him and deciding to buy a gun. PRACTICING so he could do what he wanted too effectively. Bringing the guns to work on a few different occasions but not doing anything because it wasn't the right time or he got nervous the first time. And then the day of, watching her sit in her car, readying his guns, and then when she went inside deciding to go ahead and kill her.

Yea it was really fucking terrible and probably why I struggled to disengage. Because sure the job put him on leave and asked he get counseling before returning but they put him back around her, didn't distance him or anything. And I would feel if someone is dangerous enough to an employee to require a psychiatrist okay before returning, they shouldn't be allowed back for safety.

And WHO okayed this dude to begin with... The entire news article is appalling and leaves so many questions... But my cousin saying he didn't stalk that woman and it wasn't that bad after she was killed made me so furious I couldn't hold it in. And he's definitely someone I typically avoid even interacting with.

Why do you like being purposely obtuse so much? It's very unlikely you don't understand what's being said to you.

I didn't lecture you, I didn't say this is how you should do it or that your method of giving advice was wrong. I said in a post script that differing abilities is why I start with a note of "may not be helpful". That's why I do it. And I said I wasn't arguing with you but explaining why your advice didn't and wouldn't be able to help much for us.

Why do people assume responding to someone means you're angry? Is there something in the comment that screams "FUCK YOU" or something that just gives off the vibe you're pissed off? Is it the length? I've noticed people seem to equate longer comments with someone being emotional and not just trying to explain in a more detailed or understandable way so is it length? I even asked if you had any other advice that might apply to Texas' way of handling potentially dangerous situations.

... You know I've responded to multiple comments and not just yours and majority are giving advice I've taken positively right? And I wasn't arguing, I was telling you why it is I said what I said. Especially our location and how the system works here. Some people's advice can't help others if the laws are different. Some places take stalking and threats seriously and some don't and just make a note of it. That changes how you would react and the advice you would give. If I'm asking for what I should tell young women joining society, and your advice doesn't apply to what we are capable of doing here, why not tell you how it differs and doesn't work in case you have other ideas? I'm not expecting anyone to look at my state laws and curate it to me when I can just tell them how it works here. I also asked for advice on other things you could have gave like dealing with people like my cousin. I've taken many commenters advice for that too. Now if you have advice that CAN work or benefit young women in Texas, I'm all for it.

(PS, for this reason, I actually start off random advice I give with "this may not work in your area" because I KNOW my state has different laws than say California or Brazil or wherever the person asking for advice is and they can find out for themselves if it'll work and ask for other options if it doesn't)

Oh no my cousin is a man. Very loudly opinionated one. He was saying it was wrong to tell my sister to be wary because of the dangers rejecting the wrong man can bring. Got pissed off at me saying I made it seem like every man was a danger and she needed to be cautious and definitely wrong for telling her she needs to leave if she doesn't think it's safe instead of trusting the police or her job. "The job did something about him and he wasn't stalking her, he only watched her at work, you're making it worse than it is". ... Which I found insane given he shot the woman 4 or 5 times. I said "you don't wear a seatbelt because you expect to get in an accident, you wear it to be safer IF you're in one. No one says don't drive. Just be safe when you do" still didn't make sense to him.

Sometimes I like to compare it to teaching kids stranger danger or who is and isn't a good option to ask for help if they get separated from their parents. Sure not everyone is going to kidnap or hurt a child, but it happens enough and is terrible enough you teach them to be cautious.

Yea typically I'll leave the situation entirely, mostly due to fear of retaliation or things getting too heated and I'm a relatively weak person so I like to avoid physical altercations when possible lol. This happened to be at home though. This cousin is the type of person most of the family avoids because he is very loud about his often very offensive opinions. And not even falling either which way. Just typically offensive and pig headed at times. Wasn't even aware he came over to begin with or I would have done what I normally do and retreat to my room before a conversation can even start. He's also the type to follow you if you try to just walk off in a conversation until he feels like he got his point across. Very annoying. My sister ended up going back home after the altercation and he eventually got pissed off and left. Really wish my grandma would take his house key away...

Yea I've tried that a few times, things like "I'm leaving because I don't want to argue and you seem to want to argue instead of discuss" or "it's getting too loud too me with your yelling and making others uncomfortable so I'm going" "this is going to bother granny so I'm going to my room now". His normal default is "you're leaving because I'm right and you can't handle this conversation" or some other deflection. Doesn't bother me much so I'll often go anyway but it does bother me when he follows and keeps up the yelling or talking, even through my room door or try to open it (I had to buy a door stopper specifically for this cousin). I can say half of my practice and experience with speaking out for things is because of that cousin... At least he made this political year easier with all the practice of dealing with his BS

If you mean my sister, she definitely has, both harassment and discrimination. She was unfortunately one of the students who parents weren't avid trump supporters in 2016 at her school and definitely delt with somethings. As far as harassment, she's a well endowed girl. All of the women in my family hit puberty pretty young (my first cycle was at 8) and is very tall... Not reasons of course but definitely had to deal with some creeps for her as a child and growing up. Some who could care less when you mention "she's 13" "still got a nice pair of ..." Eww

As for the cousin, it's man... A very annoying man I really wish didn't have a long time partner and definitely not a step daughter to pass his BS to.

No genuinely I'm not aiming to be right, I did say any method of giving advice that's asked for is right. I genuinely wondered what made me appear hostile to you cause I've gotten that remark sometimes and don't know what it is that I've done. But if it's over explaining, then I'll take it up with my therapist that I'm still struggling with the pressured speech! I have difficulty making what I'm trying to say clear, especially verbally it often doesn't make sense... So I suppose I overcompensate by saying too much to try to explain. You can probably see most of my comments are long...

I really did want to know what made me seem angry to you. That wasn't being pedantic/sarcastic. So thank you for telling me it's the long messages. I'll work on getting my point across in much less wording! And maybe just asking if I'm understood to begin with instead of repeating or continuously trying to explain it better. Really that last message was because I felt like I was misunderstood and you thought I was upset or calling you wrong when I didn't mean to! Sorry to bother you and thank you for answering honestly what gave you that impression! It'll definitely help! I've edited this a few times so it's hopefully way smaller and less annoying to you but still clear 😅

Look, if you're somehow offended or think I'm agitated, sorry about that. I genuinely don't make long comments because I'm pissed or upset or half the time even passionate. I type how I talk. Until I feel like I've made sense of what's in my head to the other person which can annoy others if it's too much.

If you aren't the type to curate your advice or keep brainstorming until you run out of ideas with strangers on reddit, understandable, people don't always have time or even want to do that, that's cool. I won't ask you for more advice. There's plenty other feminists on here I can ask for more differing options that can work or things they try they thinks work well that can work. There's plenty that already have given me different options of things to do or say when situations like this come up or advice they would give in these situations which is great! That's what I asked for.

Everybody is different. I like to try to find something that can help a person specifically even if that means researching for their area (which I definitely don't expect others to bother with, I just like to do it and hey, let's me learn a bit about other places which is always fun), some like to have like a link or something with general information (got one nice one for a "not all men blog somewhere here), some like to just say what works for them and good luck, your method is yours, mine is mine, theirs is theirs. None are wrong as long as people come out better/safe in the end or more knowledgeable I guess. Have a good day and a great weekend! Sorry again if I offended you by mistake.

I never said it was an insurance policy, just that I find it to be the best solution. CYA and leave. I believe there are multiple ways to decrease your chances and risk, like wearing a seatbelt, and CYA and leave decreases the chance that potentially unsafe person has access to you. Sure you can hope that reporting comes to something good, but more often than not, it doesn't do much to help, especially for women in a lower position of power or importance. The main reason I told her CYA and leave is, especially for workplace harassment, most of these situations don't involve them knowing where you live or your personal information. So they are less likely to find you and continue.

But I've also met someone who has scars because the police (in Texas) told her that unless the perpetrator does something to her or her belongings, there isn't much they can do beyond make note of it. She could file for PO or RO or even NCO but that doesn't mean she'll get one and they don't last forever. One even admitted the downside to those things (which became starkly clear dealing with my ex) is that they are really for the benefit of the justice system. They aren't physically stopping someone from getting to you. They just make it so if they do interact with you, they are directly violating the law. But ... Something I've been terrified of since reporting my ex for SA and his family threatening me (which I also reported), happened to her. The person DID show up, and while she called police, they aren't security detail and took time to get there... In which she had already been beaten and stabbed...

There is only so much jobs or even the police can do, the best thing is if you are genuinely concerned for your safety, CYA and leave. Sometimes that CYA is only helpful to get justice when it's too late like the woman murdered recently. While I and many others wonder why this man had access to her to begin with (if they are dangerous enough you require counseling before returning, they at the least shouldn't be placed back near their victim and ideally shouldn't be allowed back), as far as the job and some are concerned, they did what they had to. And they didn't know he was that bad until it was too late. I refuse to wait for the too late or tell my sister to wait too feel things out either.